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    Deadliest Shooting in Orlando 
    #1
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36512308


    wtf is wrong with people!!

    I'm guessing this is hate crime on the LGBT community?
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    #2
    GFST Member RecklessWOT's Avatar
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    Yeah most likely. I mean a building packed full of a subculture that not everyone agrees with, only a matter of time before it happened. Tragic so many lives were lost and all, but yeah if you know that there's people out there that hate you and you all go pack together and party it up in one bar, you are putting yourself at higher risk. Just making it easier for some violent homophobe to track a whole bunch of you down at the same time. I guess people take it for granted these days and forget that there are still some very opinionated folks out there. All one of them needs to do is go a little crazy and now there's a fucking blood bath.


    And I already saw this shit this morning. Pisses me off. Lol I'm such an asshole but when I hear about mass shootings I don't even really feel bad there's too many fucking people in the world as it is. I mean sure loss of life is never good but what are you gonna do? People gotta go somehow. I just worry about the impending tearful speech from Obama where he's gonna say "see this one's even worse we need to do something about it now!" and they're gonna try to fuck us out of our right to protect ourselves. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they planned some of these so they can push the "gun control" shit on us. And I say gun control lightly because it's really more about citizen control/rights control. An unarmed public is a lot easier to push around and dictate because they can't push back when you finally do go over the line. Taking away guns won't do shit to stop crazy people from attacking innocent people, someone could have just as easily bombed the place and killed just as many
    Last edited by RecklessWOT; 06-12-2016 at 07:54 PM.
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    #3
    ^I'd love to have a gun! You're right about the public gettin pushed around easily. Plus if there's war and invasion I wanna be able to shoot 6 people before I get shot.
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    #4
    The world is a crazy place. As I mentioned in the Social, I was a few blocks away from the club at a friends condo and I was driving right through the intersection as the incident was begining. I was completely unaware and just missed the ensueing chaos. I have a couple of gay friends and a cousing who are both gay and hispanic. It was latin celebration night so I was worried but thank God they are alright. They are saying this guy was connected to ISIS and they are claiming responsibility. I can't believe this happened so close to home. 50 dead and 53 injured! It was a massacre and a tragedy. My love and prayers go out to the injured, family and survivors.
    Last edited by somnilicious; 06-12-2016 at 09:08 PM.
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    #5
    I give him props it sounds like he was a pretty good shot. And yes Recky no matter what the Muslims cuase problems even if we appease their every demand. Look at the way the run their own countries beating their women and you can't even drink a beer without getting flogged or some other fucked up punishment.
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    #6
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    They say he was a Muslim but doesn't represent all Muslims. But they say he was a gun owner and represents all us gun owners. When is the country gonna wake up and realize it ain't the gun that does the killing it the person.
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    #7
    I'll start this off with the closest I'll come to being an Islamic apologist. Islam is the dominant religion in 49 countries and there are over a billion Muslims scattered across the world. Some of them have very tyrannical governments (Saudi for example) and some are as lax as we are (Malaysia for example. I've spent time there and there were drugs, alcohol and women in bikinis everywhere and nobody gave a shit). So it really is not fair to characterize a billion people around the world, or 49 different countries, according to the bad actions of several States that are correlated with Muslim populations. If you think that all Islamic countries beat women or prohibit alcohol, then you have research to do. If you think that all Islamic families operate in similar ways, then you have neighbours to meet. Sweeping generalisations never work in any context.

    So when something happens like this mass shooting, typically there are two motivating factors:

    1) Hatred of individuals as espoused by religious doctrines.
    2) Foreign policy actions of States/governments.

    These two are inextricably linked and it's not fair to really get political about these events without properly giving attention to both.

    I think anybody on here would be upset if someone grabbed our girlfriend in public, killed our dog or something like that. We would have a hard time controlling ourselves enough to not want to retaliate. So can we really blame people connected to the Middle East for wanting to hurt America after it has led political efforts over the past couple decades that has resulted in over a million innocent casualties? And for what? For-profit wars and such. So while terror and hate is not appropriate in any context (not for Al Qaeda or ISIS, but also not for the American military), I think we can all understand reactionary anger and why these global efforts occur. They are political in nature before they are religious. With that said, the 20-somethings who carry out the actual attacks don't really tend to have the ability to sit down and comprehend global politics and warfare strategy, so the higher-ups get them emotionally charged with arguments about the infidels and such. It is a political war at the top of the chain and a religious one at the bottom.

    Is it easier to pervert Islam than the other religions? I think that this is debatable. There is a lot of fucked up stuff in Islam and in recent years most of the big attacks have been motivated by an interpretation of it. Yet it is really hard to isolate the question to Islam without taking into context geopolitical dynamics. With that said, if America came under serious attack and serious numbers of innocent people were regularly being killed, would we see a rise in extremist Christianity? I'd argue that yes we would. Are there ways to pervert the Bible into sounding really bad? Obviously. Surely this all happened in the past, for example with the Crusades. It's just that in our current geopolitical enviornment, groups correlated with large Christian populations are not currently under military attack. I mean we have militant Buddhist groups in corners of Asia for Buddha's sake... It's human nature to get worked up when you feel threatened.

    Banning semi-autos, or even all guns, won't do anything. Illegal guns will still exist and criminals aren't known for adhering to laws. The Paris attack last November involved the exact same AR-15 and that was a gun-free zone in a country that bans semi-autos. If there is a will, there is a way. If it's not guns, then it will be bombs. Or some other form of destruction. We have to fight against the will instead of the way, and fighting against the will is best done by channeling all of the passions over the gun debate or the LGBT debate and focus it on our government's foreign policy.

    If you love Muslims, then it would make sense that you'd want to change our foreign policy so that we stop murdering them. If you hate Muslims, then it would make sense that you'd want to change our foreign policy so that they will stop murdering us.
    Last edited by RedLeader; 06-13-2016 at 07:31 PM.
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    #8
    GFST Member RecklessWOT's Avatar
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    I completely agree with the last part about eliminating the will instead of the way, and the gun free zones and shit. Guns don't kill people, deranged angry people do, and sometimes they use guns. But making laws about guns won't fix shit, violent criminals don't pay much attention to laws in the first place. We need to figure out what the fuck has gone so terribly wrong in our society that is making people so angry and bitter and pushing them over the edge to just start murdering lots of people (not talking about terrorism, just the shootings in general). I can't continue on that topic any more cause I've been debating it too much recently. But shit we live in a fucked up world and everyone is hellbent on making it worse while thinking they're making it better. We're destroying ourselves and are too stupid to see it.

    But I will say one thing I disagree with. I don't think it's so much about foreign policy and loving/hating muslims. Plain and simple, sure they have the right to be mad that our military is over there starting wars and all that shit. But why not go after the military or government officials? We're not walking into concerts and bars to shoot the place up or taking down buildings in major metropolitan areas to kill innocent people. Sure innocent people get killed in war sometimes, but they're specifically only targeting civilians to try to make us fearful or upset or sad or whatever the fuck it is they're trying to accomplish. That's barbaric and inhuman and downright disgusting.

    Also about the crusades, yeah that was a fucked up time in christianity, but that lasted for how long? Couple hundred years or something, if that? Muslims have been attacking jews/christians for fucking thousands of years, they even attack other branches of their same religion, out of blind hatred and anger. They're so fucking hateful it's incredible. I'm definitely not saying all muslims are bad, but no I really doubt some angry christian extremists would ever be able to come close to disturbing as much shit as the numerous violent muslim groups have over the years. The entire middle east is a warzone, and while sure we're not making it better by any means, even if we pulled out they'd still be fucking shit up all over the place, over there and elsewhere in the world.
    Last edited by RecklessWOT; 06-13-2016 at 07:54 PM.
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    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by RecklessWOT View Post
    But I will say one thing I disagree with. I don't think it's so much about foreign policy and loving/hating muslims. Plain and simple, sure they have the right to be mad that our military is over there starting wars and all that shit. But why not go after the military? We're not walking into concerts and bars to shoot the place up or taking down buildings in major metropolitan areas to kill innocent people. Sure innocent people get killed in war sometimes, but they're specifically only targeting civilians to try to make us fearful or upset or sad or whatever the fuck it is they're trying to accomplish. That's barbaric and inhuman.
    Ya, maybe they see it as a numbers game or something.

    I still see the decisions to kill innocent Americans as one driven by political ambitions and not religious ones. Again, the piety of it all being used to manipulate the shooters, but the commanders of the terrorist organizations see themselves fighting imperialism and whatnot. Watch the videos of bin Laden speaking pre or post 9/11 for example, where he says essentially this. We can agree to disagree here.

    I agree that it's doomed in the Middle East regardless of whether or not we are there. We should just leave and spend the money on better things.

    I'm definitely not saying all muslims are bad, but no I really doubt some angry christian extremists would ever be able to come close to disturbing as much shit as the numerous violent muslim groups have over the years.
    Hitler? Timothy McVeigh? Eric Rudolph?
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    #10
    Also, the shooter's ex-wife is extremely attractive. I forgot to make that tasteless comment earlier...
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