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USA the new Syrac?
 
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    USA the new Syrac? 
    #1
    Member Skeletons4Sex!'s Avatar
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    Would you expect our one and many bullshit leaders of this police nation to side with Britain and France to bomb the towels off of Syria and Iraqis bombers heads? Or would you expect Obama to do what he is now after this so non impressive press conference stating that he will just keep troops on the ground and leave airstrikes to the other countries responibilities? I guess my question really is, do you feel that having an open border into the states is something that keeps you awake at night, or are you a chanorris ( Chan and norris) combo freedom fighter ?
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    #2
    tuff subject can you clarify your question. No the open boarder does not bother me i have the right to bear arms and i do so for myself protection and the protection of my family at night u better be super prepared to f w me cause youll have an assault rifle red dot on your chest and me tellin you to get the fuck on the ground and my old lady could use one of my other firearms shes better with
    edit: prolly didnt answer your question but its the truth i dont play when it comes to my familys protection ive invested in protection and have taught every1 in the house how to use them properly and safely. In my town we might as well start a Militia to take out insurgents where i live most people are armed and know how to use their firearms well. an hell their fun as shit
    Last edited by Psyclone; 02-05-2016 at 05:12 AM.
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    #3
    On a personal level, I'm not afraid of an open border at all. I'm much more afraid of the consequences of our government forcibly sending our soldiers to other countries.

    I believe that people should be allowed to do whatever they please, just so long as they don't hurt others. And if they want to migrate, then they can do so. My obligation to them is only to respect their rights here. I am not to let any potential fears about them harming my fellow countrymen interrupt my obligation to respect their rights to freely migrate. If they do not respect the exiting laws here, then they will face our consequences. But up and to that point, I'm going to leave them alone. I also believe that an open border is actually safer than the alternative under a State like ours, up and till any nativist reaction becomes sufficiently violent or whatever.

    This topic does get much more complicated when considered in the political philosophy realm, though. As someone who necessarily opposes the existence of the State, I can see arguments on both sides. Regarding rights to property, the collection of people claiming ownership of such under my hypothetical society would then be free to choose if they want to have open borders or not (in any way they want, democratic or otherwise). Any effort to force an open-border policy on any collective of people and their property would be inconsistent with my philosophy, so I could never answer with a blanket yes to this in the abstract sense (likewise a blanket no). In either case, though, the argument completely ignores any utilitarian points made.
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    #4
    Quote Originally Posted by RedLeader View Post
    I believe that people should be allowed to do whatever they please, just so long as they don't hurt others. And if they want to migrate, then they can do so.
    First off I aint worried about anybody because America has got this for whatever's left of my life span.

    Second when people migrate they bring their culture and its good and bads with them. Would you want anybody to have unlimited access to your daughter? Countries limit migration simply because if they didn't NOBODY AT ALL would be in Africa except a couple diamond miners and Dave Chappelle. Or any of the other shitty countries for that matter (you know who you are).
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    #5
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    This immigration bullshit is all because you bleeding hearts elected Obamba twice.
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    #6
    Quote Originally Posted by weekend addiction View Post
    Second when people migrate they bring their culture and its good and bads with them. Would you want anybody to have unlimited access to your daughter? Countries limit migration simply because if they didn't NOBODY AT ALL would be in Africa except a couple diamond miners and Dave Chappelle. Or any of the other shitty countries for that matter (you know who you are).
    I never said that I want any foreigner to have unlimited access to my hypothetical daughter. We, for good reasons, have an abundant system of laws in place that serve to catch and punish anyone for crimes against others - rape laws, assault laws, battery laws, stalking laws, and so on. If foreigners come here AND commit such breaches of our law, then they will be punished. These laws are there to keep our friends, neighbours, sons and daughters safe. What I'm not okay with is any additional laws, policies or practices that serve to restrict people's freedoms before they can break laws that we fear they might break. I guess it's similar to my views on drug laws. If you use drugs AND assault someone, then you should be punished (for assault, not drugs). If you use drugs AND steal from someone, then you should be punished (for theft, not drugs). And so on. If you are an immigrant (of any given culture, religion, ethnicity, etc) AND you hurt my daughter, then you should be punished (for hurting my daughter, not for anything about who you are or what brought you here). Morally speaking, I don't think that anyone has a right to restrict the behaviours of or the rights to freedom of another person up to the point of that person actually hurting another or others. I always see it as wrong for us to preemptively try and stop potential crimes with victims by creating other crimes, these without victims, as catch-alls. I'm sure that many will disagree with me, but with the way that I interpret and understand human freedom, this is how I tend to view such topics.

    So I could say that I'm okay with a foreigner having the unlimited ability to lose his freedom by choosing to break laws that serve to limit the ways he can interact with my daughter. If that makes sense.

    Pretty much all of the cases of extreme numbers migrating at once is a result of Western nations, especially the USA, messing up other countries to the point where nationals are afraid or otherwise unable to stay there. The USA's imperialist actions and world policing efforts have severely fucked up much of the Middle East and Africa. So the question becomes whether or not it's our responsibility to handle these refugee crises given that we essentially created them with our foreign policy and imperial/colonial tactics. Do I think that a lot of the EU countries in the middle of the current refugee crisis have a right to be pissed off at the USA for not doing more to help with the matter? Definitely. What can we do? Fuck if I really know. Putting pressure on our "allies" in the Middle East to be more (or even at all) open to accepting refugees of Middle-Eastern origin would be a start. Withdrawing our troops from the Middle East and no longer dealing arms to anyone over there would also help.

    My main point, though, I suppose is that I find it hypocritical for any American to be against the acceptance of refugees and yet for the policies that create these crises in the first place. Just one of the many ways that a subset of America lacks common sense on an issue.
    Last edited by RedLeader; 04-02-2016 at 03:22 AM.
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    #7
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    I am part of that subset. Why is it an illegal alien can get arrested for something and they don't report them? They are given drivers licenses in some places. In the construction trade illegal Mexicans work dirt cheap and lower the prices of what should be decent paying jobs. I get all that free market shit and hey at least they are working so I do give them a little respect for it. It really ain't their fault thief country sucks and they can't make a living. If we would eliminate some or all of the income tax and tax everyday consumer goods a little more then at least all the illegals getting paid cash under the table would be putting money into the system instead of taxing the shit out of my paycheck. I think I went a little off tangent here but I don't really give a shit because at the end f the day it don't really effect me a whole lot and I have a hard enough time worrying about getting what's mine and trying to get by in life. I ain't got time to worry about immigrants.
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    #8
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    When did we invade Mexico that makes them our responsibility.I have no problem with legal immigration or even temporary work permits but when the harvest is over you go back to Mexico till next year.The problem is that most come here to feed off our generous welfare system.Why should they get free health care,food stamps,housing,money, while some work under the table and most contribute NOTHING to the system.We've got Americans that are hurting financially,children going hungry,outrageous medical costs and lots of other problems that should come first yet they get pushed to the back of the line so we can take care of millions of ILLEGAL aliens.Why should the working poor be forced to pay more taxes to pay for them while getting screwed by their own govt.Their kids have to take out loans for college while we educate these illegals for free and they hate us for all we give them to boot.They don't appreciate shit either.Instead they join La Raza and claim that the southwest is Mexican territory and want it back.Even 2nd,3rd generation legal Mexican-Americans are against what has become of this open border bullshit,mostly because these illegals are here for the free ride and refuse to assimilate.We don't see it on the news but they're turning the southwest and California into the 3rd world hellhole they left behind.Try going to Mexico and pull the shit they do here and see what happens to you.Do you know how much they protect their southern border?They have their army guarding it and don't let anyone in yet we're the racists cause we want orderly,legal immigration?Until every American child has food,clothing,shelter,affordable or free medical care and the same for our Vets we shouldn't be paying one red cent towards the care and feeding of ILLEGAL aliens.Again,they don't appreciate nothing,they hate us and consider Americans a bunch of suckers.All they do is take advantage of us and take food and money out of the mouths of Americans who need,deserve and appreciate it exponentially more than these illegals.I got plenty to say about the middle east refugees too but I'll save it for a future rant.
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    #9
    What's the alternative? We spend a ton of money to get rid of immigrants, to send them back to their homes or to lock them up, and that money comes from where? Our tax dollars? I thought we were against spending our tax dollars on Mexicans???

    Without Mexican labor, out food and farming industries would collapse overnight. Or, to avoid this, prices would skyrocket to absorb the costs of new labor (because yes, like it or not, Mexican labor does help our economies by lowering the costs of production) and even more people would go hungry, and the income inequality issues would only get worse. You'd need some type of government-sponsored quick-fix on these industries if there was any hope to control both labor and prices (stuff way left of Sanders), and I just don't see the "get the Mexicans out of here!" folks being very warm to this type of economics!

    It's just the way it is. Mexicans have an incentive to be here. Our trade deals and drug war has destroyed their country. Do you blame them for wanting to run? I mean, in a hypothetical situation where Russia or China started to bomb America, I'm pretty sure that Americans would be running with full force toward the shores doing whatever it took, legal or otherwise, to GTFO. It's human nature to avoid pain and when your country is war-torn, it's freaking painful! But what's more is the American business has incentive for Mexicans to be here. Food prices are low because of immigrant labor...it's the truth.
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    #10
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    The alternative is to remove the incentives to come here in the first place.Just yesterday Obama announced that illegals will be eligible for SSI and SSDI along with Medicaid/Medicare in 2017.The system can't afford to pay it's bills now and we're going to make it worse by letting ILLEGALS feed off of it.Might as well put out a huge welcome mat for them.So we're spending tax dollars on illegal Mexicans either way.IMO,it's cheaper for the taxpayer to keep them out than allow an unending flow of "feeders" in to drain the system dry.Where is all that money going to come from and what's going to happen when the bennies run out.How much can the taxpayer reasonably be expected to shell out for those (most) illegals that come here just for the free ride?Again,why shouldn't Americans come first?This is America after all and I'm sure even some here could use cheaper health insurance,housing,etc.

    As for Mexican labor I already said I don't have a problem with them working here ON THE BOOKS,just when the job or harvest is over they go back home.They should have to buy health insurance just like we do and follow the same laws just like we have to.No more,no less.Is that too much to ask of "guests" in our country?But I don't think they should be allowed to vote or have access to social benefits unless they have paid into the system to earn them.And though it may not be much,I believe they do take some jobs away from Americans,especially in the construction industry.

    Sorry but I don't buy the argument that they're fleeing a war-torn country or that we are responsible for them coming here.I don't see any other countries offering to take them in as "refugees".There's poverty and violence everywhere,how many American kids go to bed hungry and homeless?Too many and Mexico isn't helping them out AFAIK.The average American who pays the tab didn't make the trade deals,which actually bring more jobs to Mexico,or start the drug war.The fact is they,like us,have a corrupt government that takes advantage of the voiceless and it's their duty to stay and try to make their country better.And some would if they knew there wasn't all this free stuff just waiting for them in "el Norte" but I'd guess if those coming here to sit on their asses and collect welfare are prolly sitting on their asses in Mexico,just eating less.

    Finally,I'm not for sending out storm troopers to round them up and send them back.But if you're caught here illegally committing a crime or not working I would ship them back in a New York second.I would also cut-off ALL benefits to all illegal aliens,not just Mexicans and see how fast the majority "self deport".There's your dis-incentive.They hate and laugh at us anyways and I can't see getting rid of the "free ride" illegal alien,wherever they're from,as a bad thing for America.
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